This is SO deep and thoughtful. I was VERY fortunate to have a family (parents and grandparents) who exhibited unconditional love to me on a daily basis during my formative years, YET, still I have deep emotional needs (as we all do). I have met many people (most - maybe 90%) who have had NO parent/grandparent in their formative years who exhibited unconditional love for them. Almost ALL of those people are so deeply wounded that they do not know how to love others. I am very sad for them. They have a DEEP NEED to forgive their parents for not loving them, but the only thing that they can muster is anger/resentment or hatred for their parents. They carry it for their whole lives. I have only met ONE PERSON who despite being very badly neglected and even badly abused had demonstrated love generously to most of the people around her. She is a good friend. I would marry her in a heartbeat if she wanted me! I am happy with her friendship though.
The act of forgiveness is SO IMPORTANT to those who have hurt us. To forgive thoroughly and deeply is such an act of Love that it can and does heal many (or most) of the wounds that have been inflicted upon us. It can and does rebuild friendships and sometimes even romantic relationships with those who have hurt us deeply. I believe that in the end the only really certain way to forgive this deeply (not to forget but to actively and deeply forgive), is to ask God for His help in this act. He forgives us for our hurts to others and we have to learn to forgive others for their hurts to us. THere is something fundamental in the human soul that does NOT allow us to accept God's forgiveness (at a deep level) IF we do not forgive others for their hurts to us. ("Forgive us our trespasses AS we forgive those who trespass against US.") Is not simply an empty prayer but the most fundamental truth of our need to heal us and heal others in this world. It is an act of Love (one of the fundamental principles of love is to forgive without reservation). We are in the this world to Love - that is our core purpose. We cannot love if we do not forgive. We have ALL been given at least some measure of Free Will. Without Free Will there is NO love (no real love - the sacrificial/giving Agape kind of Love). If a deeply deranged individual comes up to you and points loaded gun at your head and insists that you love him - you will likely tell him that you do love him - but it would probably be a lie because there was no free will involved. Love and Free Will are like colours and light. Without light there is no colour. WIthout Free Will, there is no Love. Forgiveness is part of that Love and the more we have been hurt by someone the more important it is that we forgive them. This act of Love for our enemy is the only thing that can truly free us from the bonds of our hurt and hatred. It is why we exist - to Love (and be loved). That is why we were created: "Out of Love (of God), and for Love (for others)"
May you experience Love this day and may be loved in return (certainly by God).
i have always had a difficult relationship with my mother, she's very controlling/dominant but I'm equally uncontrollable and an introverted alpha for want of a better description.
recently we stopped talking over what i would call a nonsense remark i made that she has taken as an insult to her raising me which it wasn't and i said as much. this isn't the first time we stopped speaking, we had a 15 year break before because i wont be dominated by her.
i seem to do better in my life when we are apart but i feel guilt for not dealing with the situation and mending fences (even though i feel she is more in the wrong on this im grown up enough to let things go and move on)
Thank you for sharing, Ray. That's such a hard place to be. This person raised you, and in spite of the flaws and difficulties, she's been such a huge influence. I can tell you would love true reconciliation and peace, but many times the circumstances just don't play in your favor. And that leaves you feeling alone, misunderstood, and unaccepted.
I had a similar relationship with my mom. She's the one person on earth that can set me to 11 in .0003 seconds with one comment. Infuriating. A person with a whole world of hurt herself. It was always walking on egg shells around her.
We have a much better relationship today, mainly because I've drawn boundaries, lovingly but consistently, and while she might not like that, she's come to respect it.
I hope this podcast or this thread here helps in some way. You both deserve a relationship that while maybe isn't perfect, at least it's mutually peaceful.
Yes, I have had similar experiences (probably not as severe) and almost everyone I know has had some version of this. Forgiveness means an openness to the other person, but NOT a total abandonment of self-preservation. It sounds like you have done the right thing, i.e. to reduce the continued damage that the relationship with your parents has wrought in your life. You do have to limit their continued damage by people who have no openness to being forgiven by you. That does not mean hatred, but it does mean some measure of distance (as you have done). The damage that they have done is severe but it can be reduced by forgiveness (as you probably have already done). IF and when your parents relent in their behavior of damage to you, then it might be positive for you to be open to a gradual re-establishment of a relationship with them. Prayer, plus the passage of time can indeed heal deep wounds. In the meantime, you can pray that they come to understand the damage that they have done to you and that they will truly repent and ask for forgiveness from you. If that happens it would be cause for celebration.
Many many people have had no experience of true love from people on their earth. THe overwhelming majority of them cannot (sometime will not), find a way to show any kind of Love to other people. THis is the true tragedy of our sad world. HOWEVER, remember that hatred and evil are more dramatic and more evident and can often blind us to the truth that Love (although MUCH more quiet and subtle) and Hope are still present in the World. God does exist, Truly!, and He does provide ample evidence of His presence as well as the Evil that is all too evident in the world.
I pray for you Mary that you will experience God's Love in your Life today and every day!
Acceptance needs first to be appreciated. I tell people every day that it is not necessary to understand, because acceptance beats understanding every time.
For example, I do not understand transgenderism, but I accept that it is real. I recall a dozen years ago being told by a fellow member of our congregation, "I need to understand why you're not doing what you indicated earlier you would do." I replied that she did not need to understand anything, rather, needed to accept that I was bowing out.
That's not the same kind of Acceptance you're addressing, but it's in the neighborhood.
#3. What causes it missed a big one: Unattainable expectations. No matter how good something is, no matter how well you perform, its met with criticism.
Eg: you're made to take piano lessons. After 3 months lessons you've progressed enough to play in a student recital. You perform perfectly; you don't miss a note, you don't miss a beat. You make your way through a smiling, applauding audience to your parents, where you are greeted with stonefaced silence & barely suppressed rage. Because... It was "too easy" a piece.
You get 99 on a test. Not good enough
You get 100 on a test. You didn't get the bonus point.
Mary, this truly breaks my heart for you. I know from other comments that you've been through hell in your life. Hearing that you have continually lived with a target that you can never hit makes me tired and frustrated for you. It seems you've learned to live with that, but still, that's not a life, that's learning to get by.
🤗 It's only that bad for those who never figure it out & let go. I had a psychologist CEO at a product design consultant firm like that. She was raised to be be the "best" at everything, period. She fancied herself a great designer 🙄, but couldn't write to save her life, so resorted to hiring & shredding writers...until me. I was hired to turn her big "b2b" project into a book. And within a week uncovered outright plagiarism by her favorite, "brilliant" designer. The fool had lifted his 9 "design ideas" straight from a book (with 9 b2b design principles) that was #1 on NYT bestselling business books for years. 😆
For those who do figure it out (moi), they give up & underachieve for a while, until they are able to escape the negative influence.
My parents destroyed my 1st 2 career options before I was able to escape their clutches. Career option #3 came late enough that they had no way to touch it.
So after years of drift, I had a very late start & then, thanks to WW3, early finish. But I did get a few years of living before I got thrown back onto the sidelines.
One thing that happens in retirement, especially during long, cold winters, is memories come flooding back. It is a chance to work through & try to make some peace with them.
And I share them because everybody needs to remember "There but for the grace of God..."
When we see somebody as pathetic as the eternal masker or the loons posting vids of them being loons, we don't know what was or is being done to them to make them so nuts.
I don't know what was done to them. I do know what was done to me & know that I survived largely as a matter of high iq. Take that away, & I could easily have ended up drug addict or crisis actor, or pink & purple haired screecher in the street!
My buddies who I do the podcast with have a saying: "Everyone's on their own journey". I try to be cognizant of that and empathetically try to place myself in their shoes. Because you're right, "there but for the grace of God go I."
This is SO deep and thoughtful. I was VERY fortunate to have a family (parents and grandparents) who exhibited unconditional love to me on a daily basis during my formative years, YET, still I have deep emotional needs (as we all do). I have met many people (most - maybe 90%) who have had NO parent/grandparent in their formative years who exhibited unconditional love for them. Almost ALL of those people are so deeply wounded that they do not know how to love others. I am very sad for them. They have a DEEP NEED to forgive their parents for not loving them, but the only thing that they can muster is anger/resentment or hatred for their parents. They carry it for their whole lives. I have only met ONE PERSON who despite being very badly neglected and even badly abused had demonstrated love generously to most of the people around her. She is a good friend. I would marry her in a heartbeat if she wanted me! I am happy with her friendship though.
The act of forgiveness is SO IMPORTANT to those who have hurt us. To forgive thoroughly and deeply is such an act of Love that it can and does heal many (or most) of the wounds that have been inflicted upon us. It can and does rebuild friendships and sometimes even romantic relationships with those who have hurt us deeply. I believe that in the end the only really certain way to forgive this deeply (not to forget but to actively and deeply forgive), is to ask God for His help in this act. He forgives us for our hurts to others and we have to learn to forgive others for their hurts to us. THere is something fundamental in the human soul that does NOT allow us to accept God's forgiveness (at a deep level) IF we do not forgive others for their hurts to us. ("Forgive us our trespasses AS we forgive those who trespass against US.") Is not simply an empty prayer but the most fundamental truth of our need to heal us and heal others in this world. It is an act of Love (one of the fundamental principles of love is to forgive without reservation). We are in the this world to Love - that is our core purpose. We cannot love if we do not forgive. We have ALL been given at least some measure of Free Will. Without Free Will there is NO love (no real love - the sacrificial/giving Agape kind of Love). If a deeply deranged individual comes up to you and points loaded gun at your head and insists that you love him - you will likely tell him that you do love him - but it would probably be a lie because there was no free will involved. Love and Free Will are like colours and light. Without light there is no colour. WIthout Free Will, there is no Love. Forgiveness is part of that Love and the more we have been hurt by someone the more important it is that we forgive them. This act of Love for our enemy is the only thing that can truly free us from the bonds of our hurt and hatred. It is why we exist - to Love (and be loved). That is why we were created: "Out of Love (of God), and for Love (for others)"
May you experience Love this day and may be loved in return (certainly by God).
Ian in Vancouver
As always Ian, great comment, and back at you.
A relevant topic for me atm, I shall watch it later ty
If you don't mind sharing, why is it relevant? What's going on in your world? What connected with you in this post/topic?
i have always had a difficult relationship with my mother, she's very controlling/dominant but I'm equally uncontrollable and an introverted alpha for want of a better description.
recently we stopped talking over what i would call a nonsense remark i made that she has taken as an insult to her raising me which it wasn't and i said as much. this isn't the first time we stopped speaking, we had a 15 year break before because i wont be dominated by her.
i seem to do better in my life when we are apart but i feel guilt for not dealing with the situation and mending fences (even though i feel she is more in the wrong on this im grown up enough to let things go and move on)
Thank you for sharing, Ray. That's such a hard place to be. This person raised you, and in spite of the flaws and difficulties, she's been such a huge influence. I can tell you would love true reconciliation and peace, but many times the circumstances just don't play in your favor. And that leaves you feeling alone, misunderstood, and unaccepted.
I had a similar relationship with my mom. She's the one person on earth that can set me to 11 in .0003 seconds with one comment. Infuriating. A person with a whole world of hurt herself. It was always walking on egg shells around her.
We have a much better relationship today, mainly because I've drawn boundaries, lovingly but consistently, and while she might not like that, she's come to respect it.
I hope this podcast or this thread here helps in some way. You both deserve a relationship that while maybe isn't perfect, at least it's mutually peaceful.
its given me something to think about thanks!
Dear Mary,
Yes, I have had similar experiences (probably not as severe) and almost everyone I know has had some version of this. Forgiveness means an openness to the other person, but NOT a total abandonment of self-preservation. It sounds like you have done the right thing, i.e. to reduce the continued damage that the relationship with your parents has wrought in your life. You do have to limit their continued damage by people who have no openness to being forgiven by you. That does not mean hatred, but it does mean some measure of distance (as you have done). The damage that they have done is severe but it can be reduced by forgiveness (as you probably have already done). IF and when your parents relent in their behavior of damage to you, then it might be positive for you to be open to a gradual re-establishment of a relationship with them. Prayer, plus the passage of time can indeed heal deep wounds. In the meantime, you can pray that they come to understand the damage that they have done to you and that they will truly repent and ask for forgiveness from you. If that happens it would be cause for celebration.
Many many people have had no experience of true love from people on their earth. THe overwhelming majority of them cannot (sometime will not), find a way to show any kind of Love to other people. THis is the true tragedy of our sad world. HOWEVER, remember that hatred and evil are more dramatic and more evident and can often blind us to the truth that Love (although MUCH more quiet and subtle) and Hope are still present in the World. God does exist, Truly!, and He does provide ample evidence of His presence as well as the Evil that is all too evident in the world.
I pray for you Mary that you will experience God's Love in your Life today and every day!
Ian in Vancouver
Acceptance needs first to be appreciated. I tell people every day that it is not necessary to understand, because acceptance beats understanding every time.
For example, I do not understand transgenderism, but I accept that it is real. I recall a dozen years ago being told by a fellow member of our congregation, "I need to understand why you're not doing what you indicated earlier you would do." I replied that she did not need to understand anything, rather, needed to accept that I was bowing out.
That's not the same kind of Acceptance you're addressing, but it's in the neighborhood.
#3. What causes it missed a big one: Unattainable expectations. No matter how good something is, no matter how well you perform, its met with criticism.
Eg: you're made to take piano lessons. After 3 months lessons you've progressed enough to play in a student recital. You perform perfectly; you don't miss a note, you don't miss a beat. You make your way through a smiling, applauding audience to your parents, where you are greeted with stonefaced silence & barely suppressed rage. Because... It was "too easy" a piece.
You get 99 on a test. Not good enough
You get 100 on a test. You didn't get the bonus point.
And so on...
Mary, this truly breaks my heart for you. I know from other comments that you've been through hell in your life. Hearing that you have continually lived with a target that you can never hit makes me tired and frustrated for you. It seems you've learned to live with that, but still, that's not a life, that's learning to get by.
🤗 It's only that bad for those who never figure it out & let go. I had a psychologist CEO at a product design consultant firm like that. She was raised to be be the "best" at everything, period. She fancied herself a great designer 🙄, but couldn't write to save her life, so resorted to hiring & shredding writers...until me. I was hired to turn her big "b2b" project into a book. And within a week uncovered outright plagiarism by her favorite, "brilliant" designer. The fool had lifted his 9 "design ideas" straight from a book (with 9 b2b design principles) that was #1 on NYT bestselling business books for years. 😆
For those who do figure it out (moi), they give up & underachieve for a while, until they are able to escape the negative influence.
My parents destroyed my 1st 2 career options before I was able to escape their clutches. Career option #3 came late enough that they had no way to touch it.
So after years of drift, I had a very late start & then, thanks to WW3, early finish. But I did get a few years of living before I got thrown back onto the sidelines.
One thing that happens in retirement, especially during long, cold winters, is memories come flooding back. It is a chance to work through & try to make some peace with them.
And I share them because everybody needs to remember "There but for the grace of God..."
When we see somebody as pathetic as the eternal masker or the loons posting vids of them being loons, we don't know what was or is being done to them to make them so nuts.
I don't know what was done to them. I do know what was done to me & know that I survived largely as a matter of high iq. Take that away, & I could easily have ended up drug addict or crisis actor, or pink & purple haired screecher in the street!
My buddies who I do the podcast with have a saying: "Everyone's on their own journey". I try to be cognizant of that and empathetically try to place myself in their shoes. Because you're right, "there but for the grace of God go I."