I did not know about your podcast. I will definitely be checking it out. The show notes really resonated with my experience, both personally and professionally. The big one for me is someone changing the topic right after I make a comment. Especially in a group discussion. That makes me feel so enraged but also really small.
Awesome! We're on all the podcast apps too, including Spotify. We live stream on YouTube at 8:30 PM EST every Wednesday, so feel free to drop by and join the conversation live if you want.
Yes, small is a great word. Marginalized. Unseen/unheard. Sounds like you and I are really similar in that regard.
this has happened a few times in my life, it tends to be alpha types, extroverts. it doesnt go down well with me, i have a long history with falling out with alphas and they dont seem to know how to handle it :)
I can't STAND to be talked over. As I mentioned in the comment to The Ungovernable and in the podcast itself, it makes me feel unseen/unheard and strips me of my value. It also weaves its way into other emotional needs, like Appreciation.
I would consider myself partially an extroverted alpha, but probably more of a Sigma empath. I can't remember, but maybe you actually turned me on to this...
I'm trying to empathize with this, not that I discount it in Any way, but because I'm ( weirdly , as an INFJ) the exact opposite.
I understand why you both perceive being talked over as you do ( kinda)..but the truly electrifying conversations that I have are usually the kind where rspid-fire, brilliant ( or potentially so) insights are flying hot and heavy between myself and one or two others.
We're not dismissing the others views, but the thoughts are branching in such bountiful manner that ( at least for me) not spitting them out will mean losing them because I'm already thinking both ahead and fractually...and I.invite the addendums and posits that flow my way from the others.
I understand it may be a fault, but I put it out there. I don't mean to belittle or be malicious when I do so. I'm just thinking so fast, and my mind d is inadequate to hold multiple present/past/and future thoughts at one time. 😔
you should do the mayers-briggs test and find out what you are! infj's are rare, sigmas are rare, i guess that makes me some sort of unicorn!
hold the phone i just did a different test and it came up completely different, ive done the briggs test twice and it was infj, this test came up istp-a
it seems im developing or its horseshit cos i can fit both reasonably well. anyway heres a link if you want to try it
i am an infj as well as being sigma whatever these things mean. i rarely meet people who are at my wavelength for such rapid fire convos, i am not much for talking and prefer writing as it gives me more time to organise my thoughts. this may be a male thing, women seem better at running their mouths! :D
being talked over is the surest way to piss me off and switch me off, i'll either drop out of the convo entirely or raise my voice and give the evil eyes depending on the circumstances
Boy am I glad that list isn't of things that will automatically end you when not obtained for specific periods of time, like food/water/air.
I can produce my own comfort and security. The rest of the list? Apparently I've learned to do without those items beginning in high school back in the mid 1980s. They're admittedly nice to have, (some of them very pleasant to obtain,) but lack of them isn't crippling as long as you're relatively self-sufficient.
Yeah, you mentioned that before, I believe, when I posted another one of these. However, they are needs, you just sound like you're very low on most of them. Do you believe you don't need love? Human interaction?
I'm not being snarky, I'm just asking.
Would you be up for taking this quiz? I'd be curious to see what your results are.
"Need" is a dirty word for me, I'm not even happy that it applies to the aforementioned food, water, and air requirements. I have plenty of wants, many are listed on the needs chart. But I've learned over several decades that wants are just that, desires, and I most definitely do not have to have them to function normally in my day to day life.
I sometimes have reason to appreciate love and human interaction. They're not negatives, they're just not critical to my continued existence.
Same with touch. It's either really nice or really something I'd rather not deal with.
I tend to try to point out what I see as the difference between wants and needs whenever I see mention of needs...
My less than positive reaction to the needs chart actually goes back into grade school, not just high school. Long standing practice at doing without what many people see as needs, due to the (usually) high personal cost of obtaining and especially keeping them, has allowed me to maintain overall personal comfort without much external input from other people. It was difficult in high school when hormonal imbalance slanted wants towards needs, but continual lack of fulfillment is a good teacher for how to do without things one can't generate oneself.
The two or three separate year-long times when external stresses (that I had no control over except for potentially walking away from) converted a few of my wants into perceived needs were EXTREMELY unpleasant. Feeling that I "needed" things to be happy, things that were not readily available without personal modification and which required other people's voluntary cooperation to supply, were not happy times for me. Did not like that one bit. Getting out of one's comfort zone is only functional when there's an eventual benefit to being uncomfortable.
Learned what it's like for people being overwhelmed by their emotions. I can now empathize more fully with that, but see no reason to put myself in that position voluntarily.
Filled out the survey, maybe it'll be useful for you. I think I had one, maybe two, strongly agree answers, and the for sure one was an introvert question.
INFTJ, when I've taken that test. Highly self reliant to the point of constructing things and doing most of my own repairs rather than farming out jobs to others with those skillsets.
My personal needs chart, in descending order from most likely to cause my extinction when unavailable to least likely: air, water, food, and warmth when it's cold.
Human interaction potential is a want, variable strength, usually pleasant when fulfilled.
I can muster a very small amount of respect for someone because of "position" only, but only the amount necessary for getting along with them. Respect by me has to be earned. Period. We live in a world where people like politicians, CEOs, "elitists", etc demand respect based solely on who they are and not by what they have done/the example they've set. In contrast, family, and elderly receive a higher level of "automatic" respect from me, but still have to earn deeper levels of respect. Personally for myself, I don't really care that much whether I'm respected or not as long as I believe I am trying to live my life in an honorable manner. I may be weird, but I think self respect is way more important than respect from others.
I did not know about your podcast. I will definitely be checking it out. The show notes really resonated with my experience, both personally and professionally. The big one for me is someone changing the topic right after I make a comment. Especially in a group discussion. That makes me feel so enraged but also really small.
Awesome! We're on all the podcast apps too, including Spotify. We live stream on YouTube at 8:30 PM EST every Wednesday, so feel free to drop by and join the conversation live if you want.
Yes, small is a great word. Marginalized. Unseen/unheard. Sounds like you and I are really similar in that regard.
Subscribed with Notifications on. See you there!
Talking over me.
this has happened a few times in my life, it tends to be alpha types, extroverts. it doesnt go down well with me, i have a long history with falling out with alphas and they dont seem to know how to handle it :)
I can't STAND to be talked over. As I mentioned in the comment to The Ungovernable and in the podcast itself, it makes me feel unseen/unheard and strips me of my value. It also weaves its way into other emotional needs, like Appreciation.
I would consider myself partially an extroverted alpha, but probably more of a Sigma empath. I can't remember, but maybe you actually turned me on to this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2SvS9JCO2g
I'm trying to empathize with this, not that I discount it in Any way, but because I'm ( weirdly , as an INFJ) the exact opposite.
I understand why you both perceive being talked over as you do ( kinda)..but the truly electrifying conversations that I have are usually the kind where rspid-fire, brilliant ( or potentially so) insights are flying hot and heavy between myself and one or two others.
We're not dismissing the others views, but the thoughts are branching in such bountiful manner that ( at least for me) not spitting them out will mean losing them because I'm already thinking both ahead and fractually...and I.invite the addendums and posits that flow my way from the others.
I understand it may be a fault, but I put it out there. I don't mean to belittle or be malicious when I do so. I'm just thinking so fast, and my mind d is inadequate to hold multiple present/past/and future thoughts at one time. 😔
I've seen INFJ before, but what is that? I supposed I could look it up, but I would be interested to hear you describe it in your own words.
And I don't take anything you said as a slight, and even if it was, at least it was an intelligent response and debate, and I'm all for that.
you should do the mayers-briggs test and find out what you are! infj's are rare, sigmas are rare, i guess that makes me some sort of unicorn!
hold the phone i just did a different test and it came up completely different, ive done the briggs test twice and it was infj, this test came up istp-a
it seems im developing or its horseshit cos i can fit both reasonably well. anyway heres a link if you want to try it
https://www.16personalities.com/free-personality-test
I wasn't really meaning to debate, just give a personal cause to my giving some folks distress. I'm working on it...but its kinda hard wired. 😕
Yay , Ray! I know you want a personal descript...but as I have self image isdies..it wouldn't be wonderfully accurate.
i am an infj as well as being sigma whatever these things mean. i rarely meet people who are at my wavelength for such rapid fire convos, i am not much for talking and prefer writing as it gives me more time to organise my thoughts. this may be a male thing, women seem better at running their mouths! :D
*swat!*
I'm often at isdue with other females, as I apparently straddle INFJ and INTJ. I'm more logical than many of them are.
I appreciate when folks can write stuff down, Ray! I can ( woe betide any who ready typing/texting due toy dyslexia) former writing well
..but oh! I really do enjoy a lively and spirited conversation!
Ummm...sigmawhachamacallit?? I'm ignorant to this.
*ouch* i deserved that!
bherr posted a link above to the delights of sigmas
here it is again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2SvS9JCO2g
I am an empath, but apparently not a sigma.
Although I have no use for social hierarchy, the J in my INFJ is there for a reason. Lol.
Also...when the vid mentioned 'microaggressions' I was pretty much " Oh hell no...f*** that woke ..." and immediately clicked off.
I will def judge the Woke as undeserving of my time and attention. 😂
Ha!
Oh, thank you so much! I'd missed that. I'll go explore that link.
i did put you on to that.
being talked over is the surest way to piss me off and switch me off, i'll either drop out of the convo entirely or raise my voice and give the evil eyes depending on the circumstances
Will check it out when I have some time to listen! (Probably 2042)
Boy am I glad that list isn't of things that will automatically end you when not obtained for specific periods of time, like food/water/air.
I can produce my own comfort and security. The rest of the list? Apparently I've learned to do without those items beginning in high school back in the mid 1980s. They're admittedly nice to have, (some of them very pleasant to obtain,) but lack of them isn't crippling as long as you're relatively self-sufficient.
Yeah, you mentioned that before, I believe, when I posted another one of these. However, they are needs, you just sound like you're very low on most of them. Do you believe you don't need love? Human interaction?
I'm not being snarky, I'm just asking.
Would you be up for taking this quiz? I'd be curious to see what your results are.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScUBgGvh9sEp6n5T1UNfYJ6_2Cs8n3y4OGfnwCZbIUDxEPGpA/viewform
"Need" is a dirty word for me, I'm not even happy that it applies to the aforementioned food, water, and air requirements. I have plenty of wants, many are listed on the needs chart. But I've learned over several decades that wants are just that, desires, and I most definitely do not have to have them to function normally in my day to day life.
I sometimes have reason to appreciate love and human interaction. They're not negatives, they're just not critical to my continued existence.
Same with touch. It's either really nice or really something I'd rather not deal with.
I tend to try to point out what I see as the difference between wants and needs whenever I see mention of needs...
My less than positive reaction to the needs chart actually goes back into grade school, not just high school. Long standing practice at doing without what many people see as needs, due to the (usually) high personal cost of obtaining and especially keeping them, has allowed me to maintain overall personal comfort without much external input from other people. It was difficult in high school when hormonal imbalance slanted wants towards needs, but continual lack of fulfillment is a good teacher for how to do without things one can't generate oneself.
The two or three separate year-long times when external stresses (that I had no control over except for potentially walking away from) converted a few of my wants into perceived needs were EXTREMELY unpleasant. Feeling that I "needed" things to be happy, things that were not readily available without personal modification and which required other people's voluntary cooperation to supply, were not happy times for me. Did not like that one bit. Getting out of one's comfort zone is only functional when there's an eventual benefit to being uncomfortable.
Learned what it's like for people being overwhelmed by their emotions. I can now empathize more fully with that, but see no reason to put myself in that position voluntarily.
Filled out the survey, maybe it'll be useful for you. I think I had one, maybe two, strongly agree answers, and the for sure one was an introvert question.
INFTJ, when I've taken that test. Highly self reliant to the point of constructing things and doing most of my own repairs rather than farming out jobs to others with those skillsets.
My personal needs chart, in descending order from most likely to cause my extinction when unavailable to least likely: air, water, food, and warmth when it's cold.
Human interaction potential is a want, variable strength, usually pleasant when fulfilled.
Been meaning to get back to you. Epic response, much appreciated!
I can muster a very small amount of respect for someone because of "position" only, but only the amount necessary for getting along with them. Respect by me has to be earned. Period. We live in a world where people like politicians, CEOs, "elitists", etc demand respect based solely on who they are and not by what they have done/the example they've set. In contrast, family, and elderly receive a higher level of "automatic" respect from me, but still have to earn deeper levels of respect. Personally for myself, I don't really care that much whether I'm respected or not as long as I believe I am trying to live my life in an honorable manner. I may be weird, but I think self respect is way more important than respect from others.